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What Do You Say About Editing Posts?

noohootoo h2g2 editing posts staff editing posts members editing own posts editing posts

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#1 plato

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Posted 12 October 2011 - 11:08 PM

Hello there, everyone : )

Before h2g2 closed down, there was talk about being able to edit one's own post in the new h2g2

How do you feel about that? Do you think it might confuse continuity of threads?
Should there be a time limit like there is here?
Should staff (moderators and editors?) be able to edit members' posts?
Should editing be visible or invisible? ie: here it is visible and says "edited by insert name here"
Would there be a problem with it being invisible and, if so, what, in your opinion?
Does making it visible make it okay or should there be a record at headquarters on who did the editing?

Enquiring minds want to know <geek>

thanks : )


#2 Lea2975

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Posted 12 October 2011 - 11:28 PM

I'm a Noesian, rather than a Hootoo-er but here's my 2 pence worth

How do you feel about that? Do you think it might confuse continuity of threads? - I think that editing is a good idea, but you may get it where the threads become confused because people go in randomly to edit their post (such as amending opinions based on others opinions)

Should there be a time limit like there is here? - this eliminates the above problem so I think if editing is brought in it should be time limited to encourage proper discussion!

Should staff (moderators and editors?) be able to edit members' posts? - I don't know the ins and outs or audience of H2G2 to comment, here staff need to edit posts to remove insults/cursing etc because a variety of ages of users is encouraged but if it is a mainly adult setting the need for edits may dwindle (we have some idiots who are moderated a fair bit *looks at Noesis mods and any Hootoo mods who were logged in this afternoon with a rolling eyed look*

Should editing be visible or invisible? ie: here it is visible and says "edited by insert name here" - here we have both. If i moderate a post I tick to say I have edited it, on the whole if I edit my own post I just add EDIT: *text* or just add the info in if it hasn't had responses.

Would there be a problem with it being invisible and, if so, what, in your opinion? I see no problems but that would depend, another user here cannot edit your post with the exception of moderators/admins. if this would be the case at the new home, what difference would invisible editing make?

Does making it visible make it okay or should there be a record at headquarters on who did the editing? See the above question

I don't know how much my view counts with not being a hootooer but I do think that sometimes an outside opinion can be welcomed :)

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#3 BaronGrim

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Posted 13 October 2011 - 12:44 AM

I've long been an advocate of time restricted editing for h2g2 posts. No matter how many times I've hit the preview button, I often find a mispilled word after hitting post.

I'd like only maybe a 5 minute window. You don't want someone being able to troll responses by posting something inflammatory or leading, waiting for expected responses then editing his original post to make a completely different point and making the responses look inflammatory or inane. (Although, it can be funny as hell on failbook.)

I'd also like to see a capability to have a post edited later with editor approval. Our old method of having a post either stand as is or be removed altogether isn't a good policy. The original house rules about moderation suggest that your post could be reinstated after rewording, but that wasn't the case.

Edited by BaronGrim, 13 October 2011 - 12:45 AM.


#4 Magwitch

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Posted 13 October 2011 - 01:24 AM

I don't know how much my view counts with not being a hootooer


Not yet, Lea <evilgurn>

My Posted Image

I like being able to edit my posts here, however, I only do it correct spelling mistakes or slightly alter the wording. If I've come late to the party Posted Image I do find it rather confusing if the original post has been edited into submission and thus the following five, six, seven etc posts are irrelevant because it's all been changed.

If it were possible to do it on hootoo, I think a time limit of five minutes would suffice, or until a reply is posted (whichever is the shorter)

I don't think we need it though, it's much more fun picking on people's typos in serious threads Posted Image and can be very entertaining in the silly ones. Posted Image
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#5 Ivan the Terribly Average

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Posted 13 October 2011 - 03:54 AM

If we are to allow the editing of posts, I'd like it to be limited to a 3-minute window for the elimination of typos etc. Any longer than that and it's possible that someone could be in the act of replying to the original post, and there might be a shortfall of lucidity as a result.

But to be perfectly honest I'd rather we didn't have editing at all. We have a 'preview' button (which I know I should use more often) and the absence of an edit function should encourage people to think before posting.

#6 kea

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Posted 13 October 2011 - 04:04 AM

I think it would be a total pain in the arse in the debate threads and the fast threads (and I expect both of those to be increasing in number on noohootoo). The only way it would not cause chaos in the debate threads was if there was a 'there's been x new posts since you started typing and x edited posts since you started typing' thingy. But even then I think it would cause problems - if you take three minutes to edit a post for content (as opposed to spelling), then there could easily be five new posts in that time (or ten or 15 in a really fast thread). How is that going to work, when some people are replying to something you wrote, and then 3 minutes later other people are responding to the edited post? You'll then have two different strands of the same argument. I find it hard enough to follow the debate threads as it is, without having to go back and see what's changed and try and figure out who is responding to what.

Having said all that, I think we shouldn't even be considering this yet. We're going to have ALOT of change to get used to once we go live, and that's probably enough to be going on with ;-) Once we've settled in and seen how noohootoo is when we're actually running the place, then we will have more of a context to consider changes in. Plus the techies have their hands full with other stuff afaik.

#7 Peanut

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Posted 13 October 2011 - 06:52 AM

I could be won over to the idea of a time edit window of 5 minutes, ok not quite won over but I could conceed graciously to the majority and it seemed like that was the way it was going on editing threads on h2g2.

I think that the fact that you can not edit and you can not delete any of your posts encourages you to think about the words that you write and to be responsible for them and you should be.

Freedom of speech is kind of a core value within the h2g2 community I think, if you want those freedoms you have to be responsible for your words and your response to other people words. In all honesty though I don't think a very short edit window really undermines this, it's principle I s'pose, while I can see it's usefulness for typos, which really seem to bother some people <winkeye> I can also see that posts might be taken back for other reasons, those words might have already been read, in RL when you say something you can't un-utter your words so if you post them they should stand and you should be accountable for them

As for mods editing posts, this is something I don't want to see on hootoo, beyond removing unsuitable or broken links and maybe starring a swear word or replacing it with the bleep smiley, although on the latter, something to be used sparingly, hopefully it would be something that would only have to be used spareingly

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#8 Lanzababy

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Posted 13 October 2011 - 10:09 AM

I was going to add my two cents here, but kea and peanut have said already what I was going to - and probably much more eloquently - so. What kea said, and What peanut said.

Perview is my fiend. If you don't notice a typo in preview, you may not notice it until the short time limit is up, so it may not be effective to have Edit and well as Preview.

Moderation may *star out* the single slip of an offensive word in an otherwise acceptable long post ( in the past the mods would have failed the whole thing)

Plus, it would mean a whole lot more work for our techies, who are working flat out to rid the site of BBC infiltrations and other anomalies.
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#9 Trillian's Child

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Posted 13 October 2011 - 10:25 AM

From what I have seen, it's hard to tell if a post has been edited because the font remains the same. If something is edited by the poster, then perhaps this should appear in italics or something. (Even a typo could have caused a reply, so if it's disappeared, the readers who come along later will be able to follow the gist.)

If something is edited by the moderators, editors, PTB or italics, then it should appear perhaps in italics AND bold, so that you can understand what's going on.

I would certainly plead for removal/editing only of the offensive parts and not the whole post.
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#10 Quotes Elderberry

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Posted 13 October 2011 - 10:40 AM

I've been on forums where you can edit as much as you want at any time, and it rarely causes any problems with flow. Generally, people fix typos, or remove posts which they realise are/could be offensive.There's no problem with flow, just as long as you always quote the post you're responding to.

Of course, I'd never edit a post.

Edited by Quotes Elderberry, 13 October 2011 - 10:40 AM.


#11 kea

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Posted 13 October 2011 - 11:12 AM

Elderberry, have you taken part in the h2g2 debate threads when they've been very fast? I spend quite a bit of time on other forums that have edit functions but I've not seen any other forum that has that fast flow on hard out debate threads.

Often people don't quote the post they're responding too, esp in fast threads. But quoting doesn't solve the problem because you still have two versions of a post with different people responding to different posts.

Just for interests sake here's a screenshot of the Info page from June 2004...

http://public.fotki..../picture-1.html

#12 kelli

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Posted 13 October 2011 - 11:27 AM

I think it is a terrible idea!

Edited to add: I think it is a brilliant idea!

I've used other fora where it works well, and it seem like here we have a quote function, so if you are worried about someone backtracking and removing the thing they said then can't you just quote exactly what you are responding to? We don't do that in hootoo because quoting is a PITA but if it was easy to do then why not?

Edited by kelli, 13 October 2011 - 11:29 AM.


#13 HyperstarSponge

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Posted 13 October 2011 - 11:28 AM

I'm used to having edit rights on forums now, You don't need mod approval if you are a trusted user. Anyone who breaks the rules can be warned then banned :)

#14 Mrs Zen

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Posted 13 October 2011 - 11:45 AM

It is about trust, isn't it? And what people are used to.

Trusting users feels good to me, though we've a history of modding behaviour as well as posts, and eding for behaviour is more serious than editing for typos.

Perhaps the right to edit a post could be earned? Or recinded?
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#15 Peanut

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Posted 13 October 2011 - 11:56 AM

I don't feel good about rights being earned or recinded, you have them or you don't. That's blunt but I don't have the posting time to do nuances and I like to keep things simple

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#16 Mrs Zen

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Posted 13 October 2011 - 11:57 AM

Blunt's fine by me Peanut. :G11:
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#17 Mr. Dreadful

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Posted 13 October 2011 - 12:01 PM

If it were possible to do it on hootoo, I think a time limit of five minutes would suffice, or until a reply is posted (whichever is the shorter)


This.
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#18 BaronGrim

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Posted 13 October 2011 - 12:04 PM

Having said all that, I think we shouldn't even be considering this yet. We're going to have ALOT of change to get used to once we go live, and that's probably enough to be going on with ;-) Once we've settled in and seen how noohootoo is when we're actually running the place, then we will have more of a context to consider changes in. Plus the techies have their hands full with other stuff afaik.



So, Kea, do you care about this ALOT?

#19 Mrs Zen

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Posted 13 October 2011 - 12:12 PM

<snork> Me like's alot.
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#20 hygienicdispenser

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Posted 13 October 2011 - 12:39 PM

I agree with both points of view. Why does that keep happening? Though I think the 'no editing' side has the edge for me. A typo might be annoying, but it's not a disaster, and if you've posted word soup you can always post again "What I meant to say was this".

#21 shagbark

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Posted 13 October 2011 - 12:49 PM

I have found some typois even add to the flavour of the forum. I can think of times on Pierce's pirate ship when the whole direction of a thread changed because somebody mispelled a word. Then again tghere is the ship's engineeer that deliberately mispells peoples names.
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#22 clzoomer- chuffed

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Posted 13 October 2011 - 01:09 PM

Me also likes a lot.

zoomer hootooed noesis style


#23 swl

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Posted 13 October 2011 - 02:37 PM

Ah right, I thought we'd pretty much reached a consensus back on hootoo that we were going to move with the times and allow a degree of editing rather than remaining the backward cousins of the interweb we'd become under the Beeb's cold, dead hand.

#24 Mrs Zen

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Posted 13 October 2011 - 03:03 PM

There are two practical considerations, swl, and one cultural one

Pratical consideration #1 - is it the best use of our coder's time? - Pastey and any other coders work in their spare time, we're going to have to be pretty orderly with our shopping list

Practical consideration #2 - how much work will the Mods have to do - the big concern with edits is that I go to your user space, post something like "All Scots are Haggis-munching Numpties" wait till you respond, and change it to "I love Scotland and really want to live there" ane then claim you are mentally unstable and should be banned for your own well-being because you reacted hysterically to such a nice post of mine.

If you think that doesn't happen, then I can tell you that one of the last posts Yikesed by the BBC, if not the last post Yikesed by the BBC, was a personal attack of such latent threat, calculated spite and vitriol that it left me breathless for 15 minutes, and it wasn't even addressed to me.

My belief is we should have edit but I'd like to find out more about it in communities before we do it. Sure, it's standard pratice elsewhere BUT though it's good in hit-and-run forums, what's it like in Communities?

Cultural Consideration - we're used to not having it, and we are used to integrity in the backlog. There is a strong argument for NOT hiding nastiness, for example, but let the record stand. But that's slightly different from the Edit debate.

Ben
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#25 swl

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Posted 13 October 2011 - 03:26 PM

Pratical consideration #1 - is it the best use of our coder's time?

Well, no-ones suggesting it happen immediately, but I certainly felt opinion was settled upon moving towards allowing posters a limited amount of control over what they write.


though it's good in hit-and-run forums, what's it like in Communities?

Any forum that lasts over a year becomes a defacto community. I can think of one which has an incredibly international mix of very opinionated people and the world hasn't ended because they're allowed to edit posts.http://greatworlddebate.net/index.php

Where people are deliberately misrepresenting by editing, the record is left intact for the site mods so the haggis munching example doesn't really work. Trolls gotta troll and the lack of an edit button ain't gonna stop that. Indeed, by posting something that is grossly offensive, the troll is effectively using the mods as an edit function so there's no "integrity in the backlog".

one of the last posts Yikesed by the BBC, if not the last post Yikesed by the BBC, was a personal attack of such latent threat, calculated spite and vitriol that it left me breathless for 15 minutes

Yeah but Ed loves me really. Deep down.

#26 Edward the Bonobo

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Posted 13 October 2011 - 03:30 PM

:-D

It is rumoured that if we ever meet the universe will cease to exist.

Ook!






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